The narcissism epidemic is media hype: the data doesn't support it, and narcissists themselves suffer more
The much-hyped ‘narcissism epidemic’ has little data behind it; narcissism as measured by the NPI has actually been falling in recent years. True NPD affects about 1%, patients often carry depression and anxiety alongside it, and treatment works but takes years.
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It took his wife's one word, narcissist, to make him look
Lee Hammock has a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder, but what actually made him see the problem was the line his wife threw at him as she slammed the door mid-argument: ‘Living with a narcissist like you is too hard.’ He angrily Googled it, found the DSM diagnostic criteria overlapped heavily with himself, and remembered that as a kid, when his classmate Tony broke his arm, his first reaction was ‘that's what you get for not listening to me, and now you've ruined outdoor time for everyone.’ The example shows that the core of pathological narcissism is not feeling good about yourself, but persistently treating other people as instruments of your own needs.
— Lee HammockBoth hosts scored inside the normal range on the NPI
The show ran the Narcissistic Personality Inventory (NPI) live. On items like ‘I have a natural talent for influencing people’ and ‘the world would be a better place if I ruled it,’ Wendy came out more narcissistic than Rose. The results: Wendy 17, Rose 10, against a population average of 15 with a standard deviation of 7 — meaning 8 to 22 is the normal band. The comparison group, reality TV stars of the 2000s, averaged 19.5. This test is itself the measurement instrument Keith and Jean used back when they were researching whether narcissism was rising, which sets up the argument that follows.
— Rose RimlerThe narcissism epidemic does not survive a second look at the data
Keith and Jean analyzed NPI scores from 16000 college students between 1979 and 2006, claimed narcissism levels were rising, and paired that with reality TV, cosmetic surgery, and unusual baby names to propose a ‘narcissism epidemic.’ But another psychologist, Collie, used the same-period ‘Monitoring the Future’ tracking survey of high schoolers and found almost no change on the self-evaluation items. The literature went back and forth after that, and newer data from 2024 shows grandiose narcissism as measured by the NPI is declining. Both camps of researchers now accept at least this much: there is no evidence for a narcissism epidemic today.
— Rose RimlerPathological narcissism is three behaviours: exploitation, entitlement, empathy impairment
Unlike everyday attention-seeking, the core of pathological narcissism is an addiction-like need to feel special at any cost. Craig sums it up as the triple E: Exploitation — willing to hurt others for that feeling of being special; Entitlement — believing the world should revolve around you; Empathy impairment — being unable to see other people's feelings and needs. The DSM requires grandiosity, a need for admiration, and lack of empathy all at once before it counts as NPD. Prevalence in the US is about 1%, far below the internet impression that ‘everyone around me is a narcissist.’
— Craig MalkinNarcissists are not happy people; they are anxious and depressed
Research finds that about one third of NPD patients also have major depression and one fifth have generalized anxiety, rates significantly higher than in the general population. Lee's account of it is concrete: criticism is like a wound to him, and a single line someone said to him in a club when he was 21 still surfaces and stings today; when he meets a stranger, his first reflex is to look for their weak point, so he can hit back if they insult him. That constant guardedness and repeatedly ruminated anger explains why ‘feeling special’ has not brought happiness, but anxiety and emptiness instead.
— Rose RimlerTreatment works by moving the patient from me-mode to we-mode
There is no drug for NPD; the mainstream treatment is talk therapy, aimed at helping patients recognize the signals that trigger narcissistic behaviour and shift from ‘me mode’ to ‘we mode.’ At his first session, Lee was asked ‘what are you doing here at 32,’ and he simply cried, saying he was empty inside and had no emotions. The therapist told him: you're crying, so there is something in there — it's just blocked. Lee says his first reaction is still the narcissistic one after therapy, but he has learned to pause before acting and ask himself, ‘is this narcissism or is this normal?’ Case studies show improvement is possible after sticking with it for 2.5 to 5 years.
— Rose RimlerThree tactics let you stay in a relationship with a narcissist
Craig offers three strategies for people who want to keep the relationship going. First, the empathy prompt: lead with ‘you are the most important person in my life,’ then say ‘when you interrupted me like that, it wrecked me’ — lay down empathy before delivering the feedback. Second, catching good: catch the narcissist's occasional kindness, but tie it to their own interest — don't say ‘that made me feel good,’ say ‘you buying me dinner made me more motivated to finish the work.’ Third, gray rocking: if the first two don't work, become a gray rock — no explaining, no defending, giving them no ammunition to attack with. The precondition is confirming first that the relationship is emotionally and physically safe.
— Craig MalkinExcessive focus on yourself is harmful even if you score low
Rose says her takeaway from the episode is this: when we focus excessively on ourselves — our legacy, what other people think of us — that self-immersion does not make us happier, it does damage. So the lesson holds even if you score very low on the narcissism inventory. That loops right back to the episode's judgment: the narcissism-epidemic narrative is largely something the media and generational bias amplified, but narcissism as an internal drive really does grind a person down.
— Rose RimlerIn their own words · checked verbatim
All these different researchers in this space agree that there is currently no evidence that narcissism is up compared to a few decades ago.
Rose Rimler22:37
I'm just not a normal person, normalcy.Being average is, it's like painful.' like death. It's almost like dying.
Lee Hammock28:38
Criticism feels like I like a truly like a wound, like it just doesn't go away. It's just like sometimes it gets healed up, it's kind of like a score. right, it gets healed up. But sometimes itll randomly just burst open.
Lee Hammock30:00
I feel like I don't have any emotions. I like, I just feel like.Empty inside. And I start crying like.
Lee Hammock32:52
Do I like how I'm being treated regardless of where it comes from in this person?
Craig Malkin36:39
When we start to focus on ourselves.Too much.It can be harmful.
Rose Rimler42:33
Figures
| Average NPI score, general population | 15 (standard deviation 7) | 15:59 |
| Wendy's and Rose's NPI scores | 17 vs 10 | 15:59 |
| Average NPI score, 2000s reality TV stars | 19.5 | 15:59 |
| Sample size in Keith's research | 16000 college students (1979-2006) | 15:59 |
| NPD prevalence (US) | about 1% | 26:13 |
| Major depression comorbidity in NPD patients | about one third | 30:00 |
| Generalized anxiety comorbidity in NPD patients | about one fifth | 30:00 |
| Time for NPD treatment to work (case studies) | 2.5-5 years | 34:58 |
Glossary
- NPI (Narcissistic Personality Inventory)
- A questionnaire measuring grandiose narcissistic traits, with a population average of about 15.
- NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)
- The personality disorder defined in the DSM, requiring grandiosity, a craving for admiration, and lack of empathy together.
- Grandiose narcissism
- The class of narcissistic traits marked by overrating yourself, wanting to be admired, and feeling special.
- Gray rocking
- Acting boring, emotionless, and unresponsive during conflict so the other person loses their ammunition.
- Empathy prompt
- A phrasing pattern that first states how important the other person is, then delivers how you were hurt.
- Triple E
- Exploitation, Entitlement, and Empathy impairment — the three E-initial core behaviours of pathological narcissism.
How to listen
Founders, managers, and working professionals — especially those constantly maneuvering around difficult counterparties and colleagues, or suspecting their partner is a narcissist.
The stories and the data argument in the first half can be played at speed; the part worth listening to is after 32:51, on coping strategies and treatment.