The narcissism epidemic is media hype: the data don't support it, and patients actually suffer more
The media-hyped "narcissism epidemic" lacks data support; NPI-measured narcissism has actually been declining in recent years. True NPD is about 1%, patients often have comorbid depression and anxiety, treatment works but takes years.
The video won't play here. Listen to the audio instead:
The argument · tap a timestamp to hear it
One sentence about "narcissist" woke him up
Lee Hammock is a diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder patient, but what really made him realize the problem was a line his wife dropped when she slammed the door during an argument: "It's so hard living with a narcissist like you." He angrily Googled and found that the DSM diagnostic criteria overlapped heavily with himself, and he also remembered that when his childhood classmate Tony broke his arm, his first reaction was "Who told you not to listen to me, and now you've ruined everyone's fun outside." This example shows that the core of pathological narcissism is not feeling good about oneself, but chronically treating others as tools for one's own needs.
— Lee HammockNPI test: both are normal
The show administered the Narcissistic Personality Inventory (NPI) on air. On items like "I have a natural talent for influencing people" and "If I ruled the world it would be a better place," Wendy scored as more narcissistic than Rose. The results: Wendy 17, Rose 10, while the population average is 15 with a standard deviation of 7, meaning 8-22 is the normal range. The comparison group is 2000s reality TV stars, averaging 19.5. This test itself is the measurement tool Keith and Jean used back then to study "whether narcissism is rising," and it also sets up the later debate.
— Rose RimlerThe narcissism epidemic doesn't hold up to scrutiny
Keith and Jean analyzed NPI scores of 16,000 college students from 1979-2006, claimed narcissism was rising, and combined this with phenomena like reality TV, plastic surgery, and unique baby names to propose a "narcissism epidemic." But another psychologist, Collie, used the contemporaneous "Monitoring the Future" longitudinal survey of high school students and found that self-evaluation items barely changed. Since then the literature has gone back and forth, and by the more recent 2024 data, NPI-measured grandiose narcissism is declining. Now both camps of scholars accept: at least there is no evidence supporting a current narcissism epidemic.
— Rose RimlerThe three E model of pathological narcissism
Unlike everyday attention-seeking, the core of pathological narcissism is an addiction-like need to "feel special" at any cost. Craig summarizes it with three E's: Exploitation—harming others to feel special; Entitlement—believing the world should revolve around oneself; Empathy impairment—being unable to see others' feelings and needs. The DSM requires grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy together for NPD. The U.S. prevalence is about 1%, far lower than the internet impression that "everyone around me is a narcissist."
— Craig MalkinNarcissists actually suffer a lot
Research finds that about one-third of NPD patients have major depression, and one-fifth have generalized anxiety, significantly higher than the general population. Lee's explanation is concrete: criticism feels like a wound to him; a comment someone made to him at a club when he was 21 still suddenly comes back and stings him now; his first reaction when meeting a stranger is to find their weakness, in case they insult him and he needs to counterattack. This constant defensiveness and rumination of anger explains why "feeling special" does not bring happiness, but instead brings anxiety and emptiness.
— Rose RimlerTreatment: from me mode to we mode
There is no medication for NPD; the mainstream treatment is talk therapy, aiming to help patients recognize the signals that trigger narcissistic behavior and shift from "me mode" to "we mode." When Lee first met his therapist, he was asked "What are you doing here at 32?" and he cried directly, saying he felt empty inside and had no emotions. The therapist said: you are crying, which means there is something inside, just blocked. Lee says after treatment his first reaction is still narcissistic, but he has learned to pause before acting and ask himself "Is this narcissism or normal?" Case studies show that sticking with it for 2.5-5 years can lead to improvement.
— Rose RimlerThree strategies for dealing with a narcissist
Craig gives three strategies for those who want to continue the relationship: First, empathy prompt—first express "You are the most important person in my life," then say "When you interrupted me like that, I was devastated," using empathy to pave the way before giving feedback; Second, catching good—catch the narcissist's occasional kindness, but tie it to their interests—don't say "This makes me feel good," but say "You treating me to dinner makes me more motivated to finish the work"; Third, gray rocking—if the first two fail, become a gray rock, don't explain or defend, give the other person no ammunition to attack. The premise is to first confirm the relationship is emotionally and physically safe.
— Craig MalkinExcessive self-focus is a kind of harm
Rose says the reminder this episode gave her is: when we focus too much on ourselves—our legacy, how others see us—this self-absorption does not make people happier, but is harmful. So even if you score very low on the narcissism scale, this lesson holds. This ties back to the overall judgment: the narrative of a narcissism epidemic is mostly amplified by media and generational bias, but narcissism as an internal drive really does consume people.
— Rose RimlerIn their own words · checked verbatim
All these different researchers in this space agree that there is currently no evidence that narcissism is up compared to a few decades ago.
Rose Rimler22:37
I'm just not a normal person, normalcy.Being average is, it's like painful.' like death. It's almost like dying.
Lee Hammock28:38
Criticism feels like I like a truly like a wound, like it just doesn't go away. It's just like sometimes it gets healed up, it's kind of like a score. right, it gets healed up. But sometimes itll randomly just burst open.
Lee Hammock30:00
I feel like I don't have any emotions. I like, I just feel like.Empty inside. And I start crying like.
Lee Hammock32:52
Do I like how I'm being treated regardless of where it comes from in this person?
Craig Malkin36:39
When we start to focus on ourselves.Too much.It can be harmful.
Rose Rimler42:33
Figures
| Average NPI score of ordinary people | 15 (standard deviation 7) | 15:59 |
| Wendy and Rose's NPI scores | 17 vs 10 | 15:59 |
| Average NPI score of 2000s reality TV stars | 19.5 | 15:59 |
| Keith's study sample size | 16,000 college students (1979-2006) | 15:59 |
| NPD prevalence (U.S.) | about 1% | 26:13 |
| Comorbidity rate of major depression in NPD patients | about one-third | 30:00 |
| Comorbidity rate of generalized anxiety in NPD patients | about one-fifth | 30:00 |
| Time for NPD treatment to take effect (case studies) | 2.5-5 years | 34:58 |
Glossary
- NPI / Narcissistic Personality Inventory
- A questionnaire measuring grandiose narcissistic traits, with a population mean of about 15.
- NPD / Narcissistic Personality Disorder
- A personality disorder defined by the DSM, requiring grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy together.
- Grandiose narcissism
- A type of narcissistic trait involving overestimating oneself, craving admiration, and feeling special.
- Gray rocking
- Acting boring, emotionless, and non-responsive in conflict, depriving the other person of ammunition to attack.
- Empathy prompt
- A feedback phrasing that first expresses how important the other person is, then expresses one's own hurt.
- Triple E
- The three E's—Exploitation, Entitlement, Empathy impairment—the core behaviors of pathological narcissism.
How to listen
Founders, managers, and professionals—especially those who frequently deal with difficult partners or colleagues, or who suspect their partner is a narcissist.
The first half's story and data debate can be sped up; focus on the coping strategies and treatment section after 32:51.