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EconTalk

Death Is the Last Enemy, Not the Final Word: A Former Senator on Borrowed Time

Ben Sasse, a terminal pancreatic cancer patient and former senator, speaks from borrowed time: his tumor has shrunk by more than 80% but may not be curable; he calls death ‘the last enemy, not the final word’ and traces executive overreach back to legislative retreat.

Pancreatic cancerDeathUniversity governanceExecutive powerFaithDigital revolution
A rare end-of-life interview with a politician: the first half is institutional criticism, the second half a private confession about death and prayer; dense with information, though the religious passages may not suit purely policy-minded listeners.

The argument · timestamps estimated from transcript position

0:52

The tumor shrank 80%, and it still may not be curable

At the time of the interview (July 3, 2026), he had lived roughly 6 months and 3 weeks past the verdict that he had ‘90 days to live.’ Pancreatic cancer has an overall mortality rate of 87%; at stage IV, the 12-month mortality rate is 97%. His tumor has shrunk by more than 80%, but he says it may not be curable. He calls this stretch ‘borrowed time’: every extra week, dinner and July 4th spent with his three children, ages 15 to 25, is an enormous blessing. This premise determines everything discussed afterward — how a man who has been told exactly when he will die thinks about institutions, technology and faith.

— Ben Sasse
6:18

Executive overreach is the effect; legislative retreat is the cause

Sasse sees executive overreach as a reactive phenomenon, with the disease in legislative retreat. He cites interviews with White House chiefs of staff from the 2012 Presidential Transition Project: senior senators from both parties routinely ask presidents to enact popular policies by executive order, because a legislative vote would offend a small number of opponents. Congress thus hands off decision-making power while complaining that the White House has grown too big. He inverts the popular narrative of ‘restraining the president’: what must change first is legislators' habit of refusing to bear the political cost of policy.

— Ben Sasse
14:49

Entitlements are 70% of federal spending and unsustainable

Asked what legislation he would still push, he says first, reforming the welfare state: Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, Social Security and debt interest together exceed 70% of federal spending, which is unsustainable, and sticking the next generation with the bill is unfair. Second, dealing with the mid-career job disruption brought by the AI revolution; he argues for rebuilding retraining that actually works. What the two issues share: today's institutional design is not prepared for the next generation or for new technology.

— Ben Sasse
37:09

1.5% of the faculty carries an entire university's research

He uses the University of Florida to illustrate the structural distortion of large research universities: the main campus has about 85,000 people and 6,300 teaching staff; the median professor spends 60% of time on research leave and actually teaches very little; research funding is $1.3 billion, with 80 professors contributing more than 95% of it — 1.5% of the faculty carries the vast majority of the research, while other professors produce nothing and still enjoy research leave. He asks: when research output is concentrated in the hands of a very few, how should a university explain how it spends its money?

— Ben Sasse
51:03

Death shatters false idols and forces attention back to real relationships

He says the core of his faith is sin, grace and gratitude; the diagnosis did not shake his faith but made him calmer. He describes death as ‘the last enemy, not the final word’ — enemy means it should not be cooperated with, not the final word means it does not hold the last decision. Treatment side effects like vomiting and bleeding made him realize that death is a truth injection: it shatters false idols such as workaholism and online flame wars and forces attention back to real relationships.

— Ben Sasse
1:00:27

He hates pancreatic cancer but would not go back to before the diagnosis

He hates pancreatic cancer and would not wish it on anyone; but he would not go back to the stage of not knowing ‘the power of pancreatic cancer prayer.’ For the seven weeks before the diagnosis, he was in severe pain all night, every night, running hot water on his spine in the shower, crying out to God. His prayer practice is not mystified: the family prays aloud daily, and he personally follows a structure of worship, confession, thanksgiving and petition. He says all life carries a terminal diagnosis, and that relationships — with God and with the people you love — are what matter most.

— Ben Sasse
1:09:00

Asked heaven or hell, the right answer is both

He defines the present as an economic revolution set off by a technological revolution: both time and space will be reshaped; looking back a hundred years from now, people will not be talking about today's politics. In his own position he sits between accelerationism and safetyism: Marc Andreessen's answer is too simple, while bureaucratic regulation in Washington will only let the CCP win. Answering whether the digital revolution brings heaven or hell, he says the right answer is ‘yes’ — both, because all human behavior will become faster, cheaper and more widespread.

— Ben Sasse
1:20:18

Death is an evil enemy and should not be accepted lightly

At the end of the episode, Russ quotes Dylan Thomas's poem ‘Do not go gentle into that good night,’ saying Sasse is humble yet still rages against the dying of the light. Sasse takes it up: death is an evil enemy and should not be accepted lightly; late-stage pancreatic cancer often leaves people dispirited and their abdomen frozen, but his choice is to fight as much as he can while keeping the wisdom of ‘numbering his days.’ This passage keeps the whole conversation from sinking into ‘accept reality’ chicken soup, and leaves it resting in the tension of a man facing death.

— Ben Sasse

In their own words · checked verbatim

I'm on borrowed time. We all are, in a sense, but we're here with three kids ranging from 15 to 25. Every extra bonus week, month, dinner, 4th of July to blow some stuff up for freedom--it feels like a pretty great blessing.

Ben Sasse0:52

I think executive overreach is a problem, but it's a reactive problem. The far bigger problem, in my view, is legislative underreach, which set up this moment.

Ben Sasse6:18

We have to fix our entitlements. Bankrupting the next generation is unfair.

Ben Sasse14:49

Death sucks, but it is a blessing to be able to view it as the final enemy, not as the ultimate word.

Ben Sasse51:03

I hate pancreatic cancer. I would never wish pancreatic cancer on anyone. But, paradoxically, I also would never want to go back to a stage in life where I didn't know the power of pancreatic cancer prayer.

Ben Sasse1:00:27

We are bodily. And, there has to be some reckoning with the question of, do we think from dust to dust means that's all there is?

Ben Sasse1:03:47

My sense is, if you're wondering, 'Does the digital revolution bring heaven or hell?' the right answer is Yes.

Ben Sasse1:09:00

Yes, death is a wicked enemy, and we should not accept easily the dying.

Ben Sasse1:20:18

Figures

Overall mortality rate of pancreatic cancer87%0:52
12-month mortality rate of stage IV pancreatic cancer97%0:52
Tumor shrinkagemore than 80%0:52
Entitlements as a share of federal spendingmore than 70%14:49
University of Florida main campus populationabout 85,00037:09
University of Florida teaching staff6,30038:49
University of Florida research funding$1.3 billion41:21
Health system share of the university budget65%41:21
US share of global GDP23%1:11:30
US share of global populationless than 4%1:11:30

Glossary

Heidelberg Catechism
A Protestant catechism published in 1563; Sasse says the structure of his faith comes from it.
shared governance
Faculty, administration and trustees sharing power over a university; Sasse criticizes it as captured by radical faculty senates.
accelerationism
The view that technological change should be accelerated without restraint, smashing the old order.
safetyism
A regulatory-leaning stance that puts safety and risk reduction above freedom.

How to listen

Who it's for

People working in policy and university governance, and anyone facing serious illness; Sasse puts institutional criticism and a dying man's testimony inside the same life.

Skip

If you only care about public policy, the 1:06:14–1:09:00 chat about his daughter flying a plane and reading can be skipped.