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Odd Lots

US Economic Resilience Comes From Consumers Borrowing From the Future

Barkin breaks down why spending stays strong despite high prices: consumers cut savings, fall behind on bills, and defer loan payments to keep spending; AI investment so far is more about price increases and crowding out than a productivity dividend; the Fed may face a long headwind.

Consumer resilienceFederal ReserveAI capexInflationData centersTariffs
Micro-level evidence a Fed official hears on the ground: consumers borrowing from the future to sustain spending, AI construction crowding out traditional building, tariff refunds stimulating earnings. Useful for calibrating judgments on US inflation stickiness and AI capex.

The argument · tap a timestamp to hear it

3:05

You can't extract forward guidance from someone who doesn't give forward guidance

Asked how he viewed Warsh's Jackson Hole speech, Barkin said he listened carefully but explicitly refused to derive September FOMC action from it. "He personally doesn't like forward guidance, so you shouldn't look for forward guidance from someone who doesn't give forward guidance." Barkin stressed you can have a good discussion about the economy, but if the choice is not to give forward guidance, then you don't. The line was effectively also a response to the market's tendency to extract a rate path from every Fed official's remarks. He described that impulse as "we can't help but want to know," but said it should be restrained.

— Tom Barkin
4:06

Consumers' money is borrowed from the future

Barkin's observation: unlike the Great Recession, during the pandemic people accumulated a lot of cash, stocks and housing wealth, and formed a mindset of "I'm going to spend." Crucially, low-income consumers are also "creatively finding money": shifting to Walmart and dollar stores, cutting insurance, moving kids back home, not paying the gas bill in summer, letting auto loans go to 60 days past due instead of 120 — essentially "borrowing from the future." His conclusion: as long as employment and asset markets are healthy, this spending sustained by lower savings and delinquent bills will continue. This micro mechanism explains the economy's "resilience" better than macro data.

— Tom Barkin
6:08

Data centers pushed ordinary buildings out of the construction cycle

In one week early in the year, $700 billion of investment was announced; transformers, switchgear and electricians are all in short supply. Barkin thinks the construction cycle is shifting from offices and multifamily housing to data centers and industrial, and that multifamily housing "doesn't pencil out" can't be blamed on rates alone, because in 2004-05 rates were equally high and buildings were still going up in volume. He acknowledges data center construction does push up the cost of other construction, creating a "chicken-and-egg" crowding-out effect, but says pinning down how much is hard. The answer shows, with restraint, the real disagreement inside the institution over the spillovers from AI capex.

— Tom Barkin
8:10

AI is hitting hiring first, not output

The AI questions Barkin hears at every chamber of commerce and town hall are political: jobs, water, data centers. Economically, AI's productivity shock is still concentrated in a few replaceable use cases like call centers, coding and clerical work; current productivity gains come more from the automation and process reengineering driven by the 2022 labor shortage. On the hiring side, employers are already using the logic of "can we let AI do it first, then decide whether to hire" to hold back hiring. Enthusiasm for AI is asymmetric between firms and workers: bosses are keen, employees are cool. In other words, AI is currently affecting the economy by reducing labor demand rather than raising output.

— Tom Barkin
16:17

Choosing an inflation narrative is choosing a rate path

Barkin sums up today's inflation as two readings. One is "65 months without hitting target, don't give excuses," corresponding to Warsh's hawkish stance: inflation has been above target for a long time and rates may not be tight enough. The other is "47 months up plus 18 months down": post-pandemic inflation appeared, and after rate hikes it had fallen back to 2.3%-2.4% by March 2025, and it was later AI, tariffs and oil price shocks that pushed it back up. He says explicitly that the second is "perfectly defensible" and that "we will push it back down again later." Which narrative prevails determines whether the Fed keeps tightening or waits for the shocks to fade.

— Tom Barkin
17:20

Tariffs are now stimulus, because the refunds have landed

The tariff topic is quieter than half a year ago, not because trade no longer matters, but because refunds landed after the Supreme Court ruling. Barkin says that over the past three or four months firms received refunds rather than paying extra tariffs. Steel and aluminum producers benefit by treating tariffs as a "price umbrella"; foreign manufacturers that ship European components to the US for assembly were instead hurt by the tariffs. The refunds are "very positive" for corporate earnings, and firms will use them for marketing, store renovations and keeping people employed, so there is a stimulus effect, but the pass-through to prices is "very targeted," not systemic. That explains why people aren't complaining much about tariffs right now.

— Tom Barkin
21:25

The tax base data centers provide doesn't buy political acceptance

Local residents dislike data centers because, unlike factories, they don't come with workers' kids playing ball with local kids, and the tax base benefits economic developers tout about lack political resonance. Barkin jokes half-seriously that they should name an elementary school after Microsoft or Google to win hearts and minds. He admits he doesn't know how big data centers will get built, and that the AI footprint, data center footprint and energy demand could all be substantially underestimated or overestimated. If political backlash leads to underbuilding, it will drag on growth; if overbuilding, it will worsen inflation. This is an uncertainty not yet incorporated into any policy framework.

— Tom Barkin
24:30

AI could be inflationary or deflationary; don't bet in advance

On whether AI brings a productivity boom and lifts the neutral rate R-star, Barkin is cautious. He says the AI path one, two, three years out has an "extremely wide range," and could show up as either inflation or deflation, with 18 versions in between. Until there is enough confidence, policy can't be set on assumptions. He also responds to Warsh's view: different AI models point to completely opposite rate directions. So he implies the Fed should wait for data rather than putting AI productivity into the dot plot in advance. The statement is a warning to those betting on a higher R-star.

— Tom Barkin

In their own words · checked verbatim

And I'm not saying inflation is definitely heading in the wrong direction. It's just not in the right place.

Tom Barkin2:04

So people are finding ways to effectively borrow from the future, savings rates down.

Tom Barkin5:08

I don't think it's ridiculous to imagine that 10 years later you might have a bunch of factors that would bring inflation up.

Tom Barkin12:12

And if what's happening is that picture is swamping the narrative, then we're going to think differently about the picture.

Tom Barkin15:16

Well, I'm definitely 100% insistent on getting inflation under control.

Tom Barkin16:17

Those big box retailers, they're truly our strongest soldiers in the fight against inflation, holding the line on prices on behalf of the customer.

Tom Barkin20:23

I think the anecdote doesn't, everyone likes a good story, but it doesn't really move policy.

Tom Barkin27:32

Figures

AI-related capex announced within one week$700 billion (early February 2025)6:08
Months inflation has been above target65 months16:17
Inflation reading in March 20252.3%-2.4%17:20
Auto loan delinquency days (consumers prioritizing car payments)60 days rather than 120 days4:06

Glossary

SEP / Summary of Economic Projections
The Fed's quarterly economic and rate forecast document, of which the dot plot is a part.
dot plot
An anonymous scatter chart of Fed officials' forecasts for the future rate path, easily misread by markets as a commitment.
R-star / neutral rate
The nominal rate level that keeps the economy neither too hot nor too cold; rising AI productivity could push it higher.
forward guidance
A central bank's steering of markets about the future policy path.
private label
Retailer-owned brand goods, usually cheaper, whose sales grow during trade-down.

How to listen

Who it's for

Investors, macro traders and Fed policy watchers who want to understand how US consumer resilience and AI investment affect the inflation and rate outlook.

Skip

You can skip the last two minutes of show promotion and Mount Airy chit-chat; there is no repeated content in Barkin's main segment.