He Cooked the Chickpea Pasta Into Mush, Then Survived by Telling People to Steep It Like Tea
Banza's first scaled-up production run failed completely: 20,000 boxes of pasta fell apart the moment they hit boiling water. They didn't destroy them. They slapped on a sticker that said "steep it like tea" and shipped — because not shipping meant losing the retailer forever.
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The starting point wasn't a business insight, it was a runny nose
In college Brian's fridge held nothing but hummus, eating was just "fuel" to him, and he cycled endlessly between antibiotics and steroids, nearly ending up in surgery. It was his father, an orthodontist, who got him to try an elimination diet, and that's how he found that wheat-based foods triggered sinus inflammation — one beer, and the next day he couldn't breathe. The ENT told him: I don't know what you're talking about, but if it works, keep doing it. That private problem later became the product definition: high-protein, high-fiber, gluten-free pasta, doing what Chobani did for yogurt.
— Brian RudolphThe first recipe had chia in it and was too sticky to look at
He bought Bob's Red Mill chickpea flour on Amazon and followed blogs for combinations. The first version was chickpeas plus eggs plus chia — the chia made it so sticky the result was ugly. With no rolling pin he used a wine bottle; with no pasta cutter he used a knife, dusting flour on the table as he cut to keep it from sticking. The second version dropped the chia, leaving just chickpeas and eggs, and was clearly better, but to make it usable for more people he added back tapioca starch and xanthan gum and committed to a vegan route. His first capital expenditure was an Atlas Mercado hand-crank pasta machine, about $30 on Amazon. He got up at 5 a.m. every day to make pasta, put on country music, and his roommates thought he was insane.
— Brian RudolphGoing from 200 pounds an hour to 1,000 magnified every mistake
They first found a tiny gluten-free factory in Michigan that could only do 150 to 200 pounds an hour — wildly inefficient, but they could learn as they went. To get into 190 Meijer stores and 2 Eataly locations, that capacity wasn't enough, so they found what was then the largest gluten-free pasta factory in the country, outside Los Angeles. The problem: that plant had only ever run rice and corn pasta, never legumes. After scaling to roughly 1,000 pounds an hour, the pasta coming out looked fine — and then fell apart completely the moment it was boiled. Each trial run was 8,000 to 10,000 pounds, and a failure meant the die costs and ingredient costs were all gone, and they had only a little over $100,000 on hand.
— Brian RudolphHe got thrown out of the factory for asking the operator
After several failed trial runs, Brian ignored the other side's objections and went straight to the line operator to ask what was actually going wrong. The worker said, "This corn smells weird," and he answered: that isn't corn, we're not making corn pasta today, it's chickpeas. He realized on the spot that communication had broken down completely, and right after that he was escorted out of the plant. At the same time the distributor was threatening him: if you don't fulfill this purchase order, you will never work with this retailer again. He later estimated this shipment would cost nearly every dollar they had.
— Brian RudolphThe solution was don't boil it — steep it like tea
With nowhere left to turn, they started testing: boil one minute, two minutes, three minutes, then stop boiling altogether — bring water to a boil, turn off the heat, and let the pasta sit in the hot water. What came out of steeping was better than what came out of boiling, or at least it didn't fall apart. Brian says he wasn't proud of the product, and it bothered him to sell it under his own brand, but he knew it was a life-or-death question. The packaging was already printed, so they could only add a sticker reading "Banza is easier to cook than regular pasta — steep it like tea," and then had people hand-apply it to 20,000 boxes. Once that shipment went out, they immediately pulled out of the big plant and went back to the small Michigan factory.
— Brian RudolphThe box is orange because every other pasta box is blue
They noticed that nearly every pasta package on the shelf at the time was blue — Brian put it as, "you'd think they'd colluded." Orange contrasts most strongly with blue, and orange was also the color he'd loved since watching Nickelodeon as a kid, so it became the brand color. They made trade-offs on the packaging copy too: putting "chickpeas" in the most prominent spot would scare off a lot of people, and so would gluten-free, so the gluten-free certification went on the side, while the front led with high protein and high fiber — making consumers feel this was a product "for me," not a product "not for me."
— Brian RudolphThe glyphosate report cut weekly sales by a third
Moms Across America published a report saying glyphosate residue had been detected in Banza products. Brian saw the Google alert during a one-on-one meeting; he says his heart sank and his mind jumped twenty steps ahead. He wanted to verify first, so he put out only a statement saying "we are investigating" — which was nowhere near enough for the most panicked people. The lab results were delayed again and again, dragging on for three weeks. The final published result was 98% below the allegation, but not zero — still a very low level, and below the EWG's risk benchmark. He decided to make the supply chain 100% traceable and joined the Detox Project's certification program.
— Brian RudolphThe natural channel recovered far more slowly than regular channels
The sales recovery was a mixed bag: some channels came back better than before, but the natural channel recovered far more slowly — and that was exactly the customer base with the best repeat purchase rates and the highest sales per store. Brian says this actually makes sense, because natural-channel consumers are the most susceptible to this kind of information. His approach now: he keeps alerts on for anywhere Banza and glyphosate are mentioned, and personally goes onto Reddit to reply and add context, with the goal of making it impossible for the story to be seen without its context. He also admits he should have acknowledged what was happening faster and more visibly at the time.
— Brian RudolphIn their own words · checked verbatim
I felt like I'd put everything into this business, even though it had been less than a year. I'm thinking to myself, this company is not going to survive before it even launches.
Brian Rudolph24:58
And they're like, yeah, this corn smells funny. And I was like, that's because it's not corn. You're not making a corn pasta today. It's chickpeas.
Brian Rudolph27:05
I was not proud of it. I was, I felt really bad about having to sell this under our brand, but I also knew it was a matter of survival.
Brian Rudolph29:08
almost all pasta was blue. It was crazy. You would think that they were all in cahoots because every single one would look the exact same. And nothing contrasts more sharply with a blue than an orange.
Brian Rudolph35:18
our sales went down 30 percent week over week
Brian Rudolph45:53
my identity had been wrapped up in this idea of I create healthy food and to then be told and get messages from people on the internet who don't even know you that are accusing you
Brian Rudolph47:01
My hope in all of this, as I sat with it, was to assume positive intent with anyone.
Brian Rudolph53:19
when we're at our best, we are doing anything we can to increase the likelihood of luck
Brian Rudolph56:33
Figures
| Rocket Hub crowdfunding total | $17,000 | 15:39 |
| Additional Venture for America funding | $10,000 | 15:39 |
| Restaurant Startup investment | $75,000 | 20:49 |
| Small factory capacity | 150-200 pounds per hour | 20:49 |
| Big factory trial capacity | about 1,000 pounds per hour | 22:54 |
| Size of a single trial run | 8,000-15,000 pounds | 23:58 |
| First purchase order | about 20,000 boxes | 28:07 |
| First stores stocked | 190 Meijer stores plus 2 Eataly locations | 19:49 |
| Gap between glyphosate test result and allegation | 98% lower | 48:02 |
| Stores carrying the product in 2022 | 21,000 | 40:30 |
Glossary
- elimination diet
- Removing foods one by one and then reintroducing them, to identify the category triggering a physical reaction.
- glyphosate
- The most widely used herbicide in the world, the active ingredient in Roundup.
- Detox Project
- The organization behind the "glyphosate residue-free" certification, which later launched CleanScan.
- natural channel
- The natural and organic food retail channel, represented by Whole Foods.
How to listen
Suited to founders building consumer products, food or hardware at scale — especially anyone moving from the lab or small batches to a big factory for the first time and getting stuck on capacity and quality control.
The show promo and host setup in the first 0:00-2:00 can be skipped.